ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - Italy’s Consul General in Erbil, Michele Camerota discussed his country’s strengthened ties with the Kurdistan Region, despite the challenges during a recent interview with Rudaw.
Camerota said one of the most demanding tasks during his tenure as consul general was the visa office, noting that the demand for an Italian visa is very high in the Kurdistan Region. The consulate give around 500 visas monthly, according to the consul general.
The Italian consul said that the relationship between Italian military and the Peshmerga forces “is very good, very fruitful, increased a lot in the last year as well.”
Earlier this year, Rome upgraded its consulate in Erbil to a consulate general.
The following is the full interview with Camerota:
Rudaw: Thank you very much, welcome to Rudaw. I’m glad to have you on our show.
Italian Consul: Zor supas, beyani bash, thank you very much for hosting me.
You’re welcome. Let me start from this; What’s new in the relationship between Kurdistan region and Iraq? There’s much to talk about and the relationship has many aspects but the newest thing as development in this relationship. What have you been working on in the last few months?
As you know, I came at almost the end of my time here, my mandate in the region. After three years and few months and if I look back to my experience I discover we tried- we did a number of deeds. Of course you see- what’s new? I have to say that in the beginning I came in september 2021 and it was a difficult time for everybody because Covid pandemic was still there so our consulate as well as all other institutions all other public institutions and not only the private ones were very much affected by the pandemic. So we had to refresh, to resume the activities first of all. And many things we tried to do, to improve, to increase because the first thing i want to say and those I want to thank both the kurdish authorities and people I had the privilege, the honor, the luck to work in a very friendly environment. To work in a friendly environment sometimes helps to overcome also the difficulties also the challenges which of course are also part of the region where we are.
Three years few months, it's not a short time. You’ve been in challenging countries before too, you’ve been in eritrea, it’s not an easy country as well but what was the main challenge for you as a diplomat in Erbil?
You want me to be very frank?
That’s what I want of course, yeah.
The main challenge, the main- the most of the pressure on our office come from the visa. The visa office. Because the request, the demand is very high.
How high?
Very high.
Like do you have monthly, thousands or less?
It’s a never-ending request. Let's put it that way. Of course it’s not only an Italian issue. It’s the whole Schengen countries. None of us I believe I can say have enough capacity to respond to the demand we receive. But also thanks to some of the staff I had recently, we tried to respond as much as we can. Of course we cannot satisfy everybody. It’s a very long talk about visa and that we should not focus our conversation only on that. But again there are a lot of expectations and I also- I also want to focus on one aspect that of course visa office for us, for a country like Italy not only for us its where everything you know, if we talk about trade, if we talk about culture, if we talk about corporations at the end it implies also an engagement in terms of visa. We’re aware of that we tried to give our response. We increased the numbers; we increased a lot the numbers. We are very well aware that there are many kurds, they just wish to travel. They want to go to Europe, to Italy to travel, to enjoy our countries, to enjoy our beauties and to come back home because there are many people here, they have their own interests. They have their own activities, and they have no intention to leave the place. Of course, as you know very well but this deserves another long conversation on a separate. here are also some risks of legal migration, and we have to be very very careful to that.
That to be careful and meanwhile try to make it easier for people who just wish to travel. And it's good in terms of cooperation, in terms of tourism I think it makes it hard to make a decision all the time, but the decision is being made here or back at home?
No, the decision is made here. We do the interviews. As I said, we don’t have the capacity to give appointments to all those requesting to that but through the interview we can assess the real intention of the people and then we also coordinate with other Schengen countries, with our colleagues we have a constant dialogue because sometimes you know, we share the same customers.
Yeah, and how many... I know that many people are interested in going to certain countries even if it’s for tourism, but I don’t really know about Italy. How many visas do you issue monthly, roughly?
We increased a lot the number, we increased a lot. Now we are at least about at 400 to 500 per month and also you give me the opportunity to say that the Kurdish diaspora in Italy, is not that big in numbers compared to the Kurdish diaspora in other European countries. So many Kurds as you know want to travel to some countries because they want to go visit relatives. They want to see you know their families and so on. In Italy there is a good number of Kurds, very well integrated but many Kurds, they wish to go to Italy for tourism. So, when it comes to visa, we also have to be somehow. Pass me the word, careful because we cannot be a transit country towards other destinations. So, we have to assess if applicants have a genuine interest to visit Italy, to go to Italy at least as first country destination and then to eventually even reach other destinations and then come back here.
but I think what you are telling me is that anyone with proper documents and meeting the requirements is eligible to get the visa from your consulate here in Erbil.
Of course!
400 to 500 visa is not a small number actually.
It’s not! For our capacity it’s not. Because also one of the challenges I had as I told you in the beginning, the office for many reasons was not very much staffed, we increased the staff we have more people. We are some locals, and we also increased the number of expats and also allow me to say as a matter of satisfaction as well in the last year we have been upgraded to consulate general. For that I want to thank of course my headquarter, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and also the Kurdish authorities who encourages this upgrade which testifies once again the excellent level of cooperation and relation between our-
Economically, how many Italian companies do you operate in the Kurdistan region now, as per your awareness?
From my perspective, from my view, from our observatory, I have to say that understand that until 2014, 2015, there was a bigger presence of companies installed, resident here in the region. Then as you know, the ISIS penetration then the covid again. Many companies withdrew. They reduced, downsized their presence, but on the other hand I see that many companies somehow commute between Italy and the region or some other Italian companies, italian brands for example, they do have sales agent; they do have some representatives here in the region. And once again, when it comes to visa, we do support those people who do travel to Italy in order to consult with the counterparts to attend briefing, to attend trainings to go you know to attend the fair it's an important part of… important pillar of the Italian economy the fair system. And also for that yesterday I was in Erbil for Agro Pack plus Iraq fair. We also have a presence there with our trade agency and there are some Italian companies here and there at the fair. So I would say for the trade, I see there is a grow in demand of italian products of made in Italy also when it comes to design, furnitures, when it comes to fashion of course. textile, but also of course machineries and for production for transformation of products. Of course, we can do always more and better, but we tried our best on our daily business… our daily basis, yes.
The challenge, at least I think, when companies try to focus on Kurdistan they would speak to you as the consul general here or your staff. What is the challenge… the main challenge here in Kurdistan for Italian businesses to come here and operate and work?
Well, thank you. That's a very important question there are a few things I want to underline. The first challenge is of course you know, stability, security because from Europe, from Italy from outside, people look at the region like you know still warzone. Once they come here, they realize that there are other conditions as well you know to establish a presence but all that said you know we cannot ignore that again stability, security, is very important for attracting businessmen, investors, and of course, it’s not a matter of Kurdistan region, it’s a matter of the wider region, middle east. We read the newspaper, we watch the news every day and we see that the situation surrounding us is not encouraging. As well as, you cannot deny, you cannot ignore that even in the recent pasts there were some events in Erbil itself, in the city. And so, the main challenge for us is to be balanced between our institutional room, We cannot just say to the companies please come everything is perfect, so we are to balance our standing, our encouragement to increase the bilateral relations but at the same time to advise in an honest, frank way.
Regarding as you mentioned, security, Italy is one of the countries that supports the security and stability in kurdistan Region supports the peshmergas since 2015, since the war. I think you still have military personnel here on the ground and prime minister Meloni visited the military- Italian military here in Erbil. How is that cooperation now and how is the current support for the peshmerga that Italy provides, currenlty?
The relationship is very good, very fruitful, increased a lot in the last year as well. Thank you to remind the visit of our prime minister I also want to add that she visited Iraq and Kurdistan in December 2022, and it was the first bilateral visit out of Europe. Also, our minister of defense came here Mr [Guido] Crosseto and also we received a delegation on a daily basis as well from the Italian ministry of defense. As you said, yes, we are part of the international coalition to fight Daesh we do have our troops here in Erbil not only also in Sulaimaniyah also in Atroush and as you know there are other missions in the rest of the country where Italy is also present… So we joined international partners The United States, UK, Netherlands, Germany, and from our side we are especially mainly focused on training. To deliver trainings to the peshmerga.
At a certain time I think there were around 800 Italian military personnel in Kurdistan, how many are they now? Are the numbers reduced or are they still the same?
I don't have precise numbers, but I can say it’s less than half than that.
When we talk about Italy of course we cannot forget the archeological work. You have many missions and Italy is one of the countries which is very interested in and has a very significant role in the archeological sites in Kurdistan and this is where all the history is of the first civilizations of the world. How many missions do you have now?
Thank you, thank you for this question. Everybody seems to know that archeology is the main asset in our cultural bilateral relations with all Iraq and with the Kurdistan Region. All in all, at the moment we have 22 missions supported by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in all of Iraq, in Kurdistan, 11. Then there might be other missions not directly supported Italian institutions, but they work on their own. It’s a… I dedicated a lot of my time to the archeological mission. There were 3 in September 21 now they became 11. Why? I think for two main reasons that the Kurdistan region is a new frontier in the last two decades for the archeologists. And also, because, unfortunately, this is not a nice one because many of them they were also used to work in Syria, and at some point when the Syrian war broke out in Syria many of them moved to the Kurdistan region, but since they want to stay, we hope of course they can come back to Syria soon but also course they won't leave at all the position in Kurdistan.
This year, in order to celebrate this engagement this fascinating engagement of the Italian archeologists, as a consulate, we promoted a photo exhibition last April and also a workshop in the workshops we put together all the Italian directors of the missions with the local counterparts from the directorates of antiquities and heritage. Allow me to thank them all for the close cooperation and also this exhibition was displayed for one month in Erbil, for another month in sulaimaniyah and for another month in Dohuk because our presence is all over the region. Allow me to also advertise this catalog we produce as a consulate with the support of [inaudible] this is a gift for you.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
And also, about the archeology I want to say the Italian system we used to say Sistema Italia support the archeology and for example, we inaugurated 2 years ago the first archeological park of all Iraq in Fayidah and Kinis in the governorate of Duhok with also a grant a substantial grant by the Italian agency for cooperation. The importance of archeology the importance of culture is not only to preserve and… [inaudible] the cultural heritage. Of course, that is a very important point but also we do believe that archeology can be a driver for job opportunities, for attracting tourists and our researchers, our professors in the field also when they come… we have about two to three hundred archeologists coming to the region that come forth and back. They also employ local people from the local communities. So, the value of their work goes much beyond the excavation itself.
That's a big number. Culturally, now what are the cooperations between the Kurdistan Region and Italy? Culturally first and educationally too, do you provide any scholarships?
Thank you, I dedicated a lot of time to culture not only because I am the son of a teacher, I do believe that culture is very important and culture educated people are more keen to bring a message of peace, of dialogue, so the value of culture goes much beyond that. As a consulate, we launched some events. For example, we organized the week of the Italian cuisine three times, again, both in Erbil and Sulaimaniyah. We organized Italian cuisine courses for local people. We organize an event for the Italian design in Sulaimaniyah and Erbil. We also organized some events of Opera, film projection in the cinema, a few other, more things, very meaningful to us. Last but not least, we launched, this year, Italian language courses in cooperation with the Catholic University of Erbil, I want to thank them for the warm hospitality. We are now finalizing an agreement between the Catholic University of Erbil and Societa Dante Alighieri is an Italian institute, the main one to promote Italian language and culture in the world. We already delivered four courses for beginners, the courses will be open to the public starting from next week at the catholic university, so everyone can apply. And then the process will be managed by the catholic university and we wish and I wish in the future we can further strengthen this cooperation.
And it’s free? The course?
So far, we finance it, but from the new year there will be a fee, will be decided by the catholic university in accordance with the… You ask about scholarship? We would like to have more, of course, it’s never enough as I said. The demand also is very high. And I have to say the scholarships issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs are for the whole country, put together, Kurds and Iraqis they’re all together, but I have to say that the number of scholarships given to the Kurds are in very good proportion compared to the total.
Again also on scholarships, I encourage the local students not only to look at the opportunities given by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs but also by the single universities because in Italy the universities as you know as in many other countries have their own autonomy they can put out their call for scholarships so we do have many other scholarships that people can find by themselves.
This is my last question, you’re an Italian person, where do you get your espresso in Erbil?
The best espresso at home, at home because I am old fashioned. I’m young, I feel very young still even though the years go fast...
Is it because you don’t get the real espresso from the cafes?
No, because the Italian the real espresso come out from mocha, you know the Italian coffee machine? And Italian coffee machine is at home, is not at the bar.
And where do you get a good pasta or pizza an Italian one?
In Erbil? Not only in Erbil even in the rest of the region, in this three years and few months, I saw a few more Italian restaurants to start to open.
Is it a good Italian restaurant?
I think so I think so, there are good restaurants of course I cannot advertise but also the Kurds, let me to congratulate for your food because your food is excellent. I like to travel and I like to taste other food as well not only the Italian food. Again, as an Italian I am proud of the variety of our food, but I think in Erbil and Sulaimaniyah you can find good options for pizza pasta and something else.
Michele Camerota thank you very much for this opportunity, I'm glad that we had this opportunity to talk to you, this might be your last interview in the Kurdistan region I hope that I will see you here around not as a diplomat but as a tourist or anything else.
Thank you very much to you, congratulations to Rudaw, you’ve been a very important source of information during my stay in Kurdistan and also thank you very much from my heart to all the peoples, the institutions, for the hospitality and the support they have given to me during my tenure.
